[Cro Dreoilin] Up for Discussion: Do the Gods need worship?
Katie Murphy
katliz1234 at gmail.com
Fri Nov 25 14:05:58 MST 2011
"Don't forget to call your Aunt Fand every Friday!"
Haha! I'm picturing a very interesting phone conversation!
--Katie
On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 12:32 PM, Kelley Forbes
<forbesk at astronomytower.net>wrote:
> <hehe> Love this:
>
> "... otherwise it's like an awkward Thanksgiving dinner with relatives you
> don't really know."
>
> Don't forget to call your Aunt Fand every Friday!
>
>
> -- Kelley.
>
> Katie Murphy wrote:
>
>> Okay, well, Greyhart encouraged me to respond, so, we'll see what I come
>> up with. I've mostly been reading and I agree with a lot of what's been
>> said (I really liked Sebastian's definition of worship, for instance).
>>
>> As for me, personally? I'm not sure if the Gods NEED worship. I sort of
>> think that they more LIKE being worshiped, rather than they NEED it to
>> survive, if that makes sense. Sort of how you don't really NEED to see your
>> extended family once a year but it's nice to see them more often if you
>> can; most of my friends seem to see their aunts and uncles once a year but
>> rarely more often than that and they don't really have a good relationship
>> with those relatives. So, I think that it's important to worship the Gods
>> regularly in a way that feels comfortable to you in order to build a
>> relationship with Them, otherwise it's like an awkward Thanksgiving dinner
>> with relatives you don't really know.
>>
>> Just my two cents.
>>
>> --Katie
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 2:42 PM, Greyhart <greyhart at castle-luna.com<mailto:
>> greyhart at castle-luna.**com <greyhart at castle-luna.com>>> wrote:
>>
>> Words like corporeal, finite, and mortal come to mind to describe
>> us, but
>> that only describes our physical presence. Spiritually, we are Divine.
>>
>> Greyhart
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: community-bounces at crodreoilin.**org<community-bounces at crodreoilin.org>
>> <mailto:community-bounces@**crodreoilin.org<community-bounces at crodreoilin.org>
>> >
>> [mailto:community-bounces@**crodreoilin.org<community-bounces at crodreoilin.org>
>>
>> <mailto:community-bounces@**crodreoilin.org<community-bounces at crodreoilin.org>>]
>> On Behalf Of Kelley Forbes
>> Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 11:03 AM
>> To: community at crodreoilin.org <mailto:community at crodreoilin.**org<community at crodreoilin.org>
>> >
>>
>> Cc: Kelley Forbes
>> Subject: Re: [Cro Dreoilin] Up for Discussion: Do the Gods need
>> worship?
>>
>> If "sacred" and "divine" mean the same, then what do(es) the
>> word(s) _mean_?
>>
>> What word do you use to mean that which the Gods are and we are
>> not, then?
>>
>>
>> -- Kelley.
>>
>> Greyhart wrote:
>> > To me, Sacred and Divine are the same. Something is Sacred,
>> because it
>> > is Divine. Since everything we know, is of Divine origin,
>> everything is
>> Sacred.
>> >
>> > Based on my cosmology, where we are Divine, just separated from
>> Deity
>> > and given individuality for a time, we feel the need to
>> reconnect with
>> > the rest of Deity. It reminds us that we are not alone, and that
>> there
>> > is more to us than we can see in these limited constructs we
>> currently
>> inhabit.
>> >
>> > Greyhart
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Kelley Forbes [mailto:forbesk@**astronomytower.net<forbesk at astronomytower.net>
>> <mailto:forbesk@**astronomytower.net <forbesk at astronomytower.net>>]
>> > Sent: Friday, November 18, 2011 4:50 PM
>> > To: greyhart at castle-luna.com <mailto:greyhart at castle-luna.**com<greyhart at castle-luna.com>
>> >;
>> community at crodreoilin.org <mailto:community at crodreoilin.**org<community at crodreoilin.org>
>> >
>>
>> > Cc: Kelley Forbes
>> > Subject: Re: [Cro Dreoilin] Up for Discussion: Do the Gods need
>> worship?
>> >
>> > What do _you_ mean by "sacred" and "divine"?
>> >
>> > When you say that _we_ need to worship, what does it do for us?
>> Why do
>> > we need to worship; What do you mean by "worship"?
>> >
>> >
>> > -- Kelley.
>> >
>> > Greyhart wrote:
>> >
>> >> I guess it depends on what you mean by Sacred. To me, they are very
>> >>
>> > similar.
>> >
>> >> It seems to me that every people and culture has had some form of
>> worship.
>> >> We need to find something greater than ourselves to give honor and
>> >>
>> > devotion
>> >
>> >> to. We need to worship something.
>> >>
>> >> Greyhart
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: Kelley Forbes [mailto:forbesk@**astronomytower.net<forbesk at astronomytower.net>
>> <mailto:forbesk@**astronomytower.net <forbesk at astronomytower.net>>]
>> >> Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 11:31 AM
>> >> To: greyhart at castle-luna.com <mailto:greyhart at castle-luna.**com<greyhart at castle-luna.com>
>> >;
>> community at crodreoilin.org <mailto:community at crodreoilin.**org<community at crodreoilin.org>
>> >
>>
>> >> Cc: Kelley Forbes
>> >> Subject: Re: [Cro Dreoilin] Up for Discussion: Do the Gods need
>> worship?
>> >>
>> >> If a God requires something, do they automatically need it?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> I also believe that we are Divine, based on the fact that all of
>> >>> creation was formed in a Divine act. Therefore everything within
>> >>> creation must be Divine.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >> I think that if you replace "Divine" in that with "sacred", it
>> won't
>> >> be
>> >>
>> > too
>> >
>> >> far off from what CRs believe. There _is_ a difference between
>> us and
>> >>
>> > Gods,
>> >
>> >> however, but it's not one of worth.
>> >>
>> >> In what way do you think we require worship?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> -- Kelley.
>> >>
>> >> Greyhart wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> Just got up (worked until 3am).
>> >>>
>> >>> When I read the question, my first thought was also, 'what defines
>> >>> worship?' because worship is a word that means many things to many
>> >>> people. I personally like the definition you found, Sebastian.
>> Most
>> >>> people in this country equate worship with giving power over to
>> >>> their Deity, and submitting themselves to the whims of that Deity.
>> >>> If that is the sort of relationship that a particular God
>> requires,
>> >>> then they probably do need worship in order to exist.
>> >>>
>> >>> This is the sort of relationship I have experienced with
>> Christians.
>> >>> The classic Trek episode, "Who Mourns For Adonis", which I believe
>> >>> is the episode Charlotte referenced, (yes, I'm a Trek Geek) was
>> >>> written about the crew meeting one of the classical Greek Gods,
>> >>> Apollo. It was written from the Christian point of view, where
>> Gods
>> >>> are all powerful, and require humans to worship them in order to
>> >>> exist. This is a very telling attitude that Christians seem to
>> have.
>> >>>
>> >>> I see Deity differently than what I've heard the CR's describe. To
>> >>> me, Deity is ever present, and what we look at and describe as
>> >>> individual Gods, are simply facets of the whole. I also
>> believe that
>> >>> we are Divine, based on the fact that all of creation was
>> formed in
>> >>> a Divine act. Therefore everything within creation must be Divine.
>> >>> In simpler terms, using the Charge of The Goddess, if the Goddess
>> >>> gave birth to all that there is, even though I myself was not part
>> >>> of that original birth, I am Divine by right of inheritance. I am
>> >>> the current culmination of whatever particles, atoms, or molecules
>> >>> that the Goddess gave birth to. Looking at it that way, when we
>> >>> worship the Gods, we are opening the connection between our
>> >>> individual selves, and that great source we call Deity.
>> >>>
>> >>> Do the Gods need or require worship? No, we do.
>> >>>
>> >>> Greyhart
>> >>>
>> >>> *From:* community-bounces at crodreoilin.**org<community-bounces at crodreoilin.org>
>> <mailto:community-bounces@**crodreoilin.org<community-bounces at crodreoilin.org>
>> >
>> >>> [mailto:community-bounces@**crodreoilin.org<community-bounces at crodreoilin.org>
>>
>> <mailto:community-bounces@**crodreoilin.org<community-bounces at crodreoilin.org>>]
>> *On Behalf Of *Sebastian
>> >>> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 15, 2011 11:17 AM
>> >>> *To:* community at crodreoilin.org <mailto:community at crodreoilin.**
>> org <community at crodreoilin.org>>
>>
>> >>> *Subject:* Re: [Cro Dreoilin] Up for Discussion: Do the Gods need
>> >>>
>> > worship?
>> >
>> >>> In order to answer this question I admit that I checked the
>> >>> dicitonary for a specific definition of "worship" to
>> understand the
>> >>> nuances of that term. There is the obvious connotation of
>> >>> prostrating before the gods which seems to be why many pagans
>> cringe
>> >>> at the term. However, there is one possible definition that
>> seems to
>> >>> answer this question of "what do you mean by worship?" in my own
>> >>> perspective. "formal or ceremonious rendering of [...] honor and
>> >>> homage". Now, on to the bigger question of need. If we aproach
>> need
>> >>> as the idea that without our worship of them that they would fall
>> >>> into disrepair or that they are so proud that they require
>> >>> veneration for sustenance, I would say no. My answer would
>> come from
>> >>> the perspective of building a relationship as you would with
>> another
>> >>> person. In order to build a healthy relationship with another
>> human,
>> >>> there is an amount of give and take, and this is where the "need"
>> >>> comes in to play. I wish to build a strong, healthy relationship
>> >>> with the gods and ancestors and my half of the give and take comes
>> >>> in the form of tanks, offerings, veneration and plain "good ole
>> >>> fashion'd conversation". So, in short, if you desire not to have a
>> >>> relationship with the gods, then no, they do not need worship.
>> >>>
>> >>> ~Sebastian
>> >>>
>> >>> On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 9:48 AM, Norman <planner1968 at yahoo.com
>> <mailto:planner1968 at yahoo.com>
>> >>> <mailto:planner1968 at yahoo.com <mailto:planner1968 at yahoo.com>**>>
>>
>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> I am on the jump to run my day today but here are a few cent of my
>> >>> thoughts on it. I do think that every deity needs attention. How
>> >>> does that look and what is considered worship/ attention? If I ask
>> >>> my deity for something and that's it, that in my opinion is not
>> >>> attention or worship or however you call it. It's more about
>> paying
>> >>> more attention about the happenings,signs and communications
>> in your
>> >>> life and how you engage with them. You thank your deities, maybe
>> >>> even write a little thank you note for a start. Just as you do
>> with
>> >>> the people. Get into a dialog. At a later point I will write more
>> >>> but now on my way into the world conquering my kingdom:-)
>> >>>
>> >>> Sent from my iPhone
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On Nov 15, 2011, at 9:31 AM, Chris and Kelley
>> >>> <chris.n.kelley@**astronomytower.net<chris.n.kelley at astronomytower.net>
>> <mailto:chris.n.kelley@**astronomytower.net<chris.n.kelley at astronomytower.net>
>> >
>> >>> <mailto:chris.n.kelley@**astronomytower.net<chris.n.kelley at astronomytower.net>
>>
>> <mailto:chris.n.kelley@**astronomytower.net<chris.n.kelley at astronomytower.net>>>>
>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>> In the interest of getting more discussion going on this list,
>> >>>> we're
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>> going to start posting some topics for talk.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>> Our first topic: Do the Gods need worship?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> This is not just a yes or no answer; there are lot of
>> questions in
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>> this one question. Consider: Which Gods are we talking about? What
>> >>> do we mean by "need"? What do we mean by "worship"?
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>> Have at it.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> -- Chris and Kelley.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ______________________________**_________________
>> >>>> Community mailing list
>> >>>> Community at crodreoilin.org <mailto:Community at crodreoilin.**org<Community at crodreoilin.org>
>> >
>> <mailto:Community at crodreoilin.**org <Community at crodreoilin.org><mailto:
>> Community at crodreoilin.**org <Community at crodreoilin.org>>>
>>
>> >>>> http://crodreoilin.org/cgi-**bin/mailman/listinfo/community<http://crodreoilin.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>> ______________________________**_________________
>> >>> Community mailing list
>> >>> Community at crodreoilin.org <mailto:Community at crodreoilin.**org<Community at crodreoilin.org>
>> >
>> <mailto:Community at crodreoilin.**org <Community at crodreoilin.org><mailto:
>> Community at crodreoilin.**org <Community at crodreoilin.org>>>
>>
>> >>> http://crodreoilin.org/cgi-**bin/mailman/listinfo/community<http://crodreoilin.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> ------------------------------**------------------------------**
>> --------
>> >>> --
>> >>> --
>> >>>
>> >>> ______________________________**_________________
>> >>> Community mailing list
>> >>> Community at crodreoilin.org <mailto:Community at crodreoilin.**org<Community at crodreoilin.org>
>> >
>> >>> http://crodreoilin.org/cgi-**bin/mailman/listinfo/community<http://crodreoilin.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> ______________________________**_________________
>> Community mailing list
>> Community at crodreoilin.org <mailto:Community at crodreoilin.**org<Community at crodreoilin.org>
>> >
>> http://crodreoilin.org/cgi-**bin/mailman/listinfo/community<http://crodreoilin.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________**_________________
>> Community mailing list
>> Community at crodreoilin.org <mailto:Community at crodreoilin.**org<Community at crodreoilin.org>
>> >
>> http://crodreoilin.org/cgi-**bin/mailman/listinfo/community<http://crodreoilin.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> "We've begun to long for the pitter-patter of little feet - so we bought
>> a dog. Well, it's cheaper, and you get more feet. "
>> ~Rita Rudner
>> ------------------------------**------------------------------**
>> ------------
>>
>>
>> ______________________________**_________________
>> Community mailing list
>> Community at crodreoilin.org
>> http://crodreoilin.org/cgi-**bin/mailman/listinfo/community<http://crodreoilin.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community>
>>
>>
>
>
> ______________________________**_________________
> Community mailing list
> Community at crodreoilin.org
> http://crodreoilin.org/cgi-**bin/mailman/listinfo/community<http://crodreoilin.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community>
>
--
"We've begun to long for the pitter-patter of little feet - so we bought a
dog. Well, it's cheaper, and you get more feet. "
~Rita Rudner
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://crodreoilin.org/pipermail/community/attachments/20111125/1fd1ae4b/attachment-0001.html>
More information about the Community
mailing list