"Don't forget to call your Aunt Fand every Friday!"<br><br>Haha! I'm picturing a very interesting phone conversation!<br><br>--Katie<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 12:32 PM, Kelley Forbes <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:forbesk@astronomytower.net">forbesk@astronomytower.net</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><hehe> Love this:<br>
<br>
"... otherwise it's like an awkward Thanksgiving dinner with relatives you don't really know."<br>
<br>
Don't forget to call your Aunt Fand every Friday!<br>
<br>
<br>
-- Kelley.<br>
<br>
Katie Murphy wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class="im">
Okay, well, Greyhart encouraged me to respond, so, we'll see what I come up with. I've mostly been reading and I agree with a lot of what's been said (I really liked Sebastian's definition of worship, for instance).<br>
<br>
As for me, personally? I'm not sure if the Gods NEED worship. I sort of think that they more LIKE being worshiped, rather than they NEED it to survive, if that makes sense. Sort of how you don't really NEED to see your extended family once a year but it's nice to see them more often if you can; most of my friends seem to see their aunts and uncles once a year but rarely more often than that and they don't really have a good relationship with those relatives. So, I think that it's important to worship the Gods regularly in a way that feels comfortable to you in order to build a relationship with Them, otherwise it's like an awkward Thanksgiving dinner with relatives you don't really know.<br>
<br>
Just my two cents.<br>
<br>
--Katie<br>
<br></div><div class="im">
On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 2:42 PM, Greyhart <<a href="mailto:greyhart@castle-luna.com" target="_blank">greyhart@castle-luna.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:greyhart@castle-luna.com" target="_blank">greyhart@castle-luna.<u></u>com</a>>> wrote:<br>
<br>
Words like corporeal, finite, and mortal come to mind to describe<br>
us, but<br>
that only describes our physical presence. Spiritually, we are Divine.<br>
<br>
Greyhart<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href="mailto:community-bounces@crodreoilin.org" target="_blank">community-bounces@crodreoilin.<u></u>org</a><br>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:community-bounces@crodreoilin.org" target="_blank">community-bounces@<u></u>crodreoilin.org</a>><br></div>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:community-bounces@crodreoilin.org" target="_blank">community-bounces@<u></u>crodreoilin.org</a><div class="im"><br>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:community-bounces@crodreoilin.org" target="_blank">community-bounces@<u></u>crodreoilin.org</a>>] On Behalf Of Kelley Forbes<br>
Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 11:03 AM<br></div>
To: <a href="mailto:community@crodreoilin.org" target="_blank">community@crodreoilin.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:community@crodreoilin.org" target="_blank">community@crodreoilin.<u></u>org</a>><div><div class="h5">
<br>
Cc: Kelley Forbes<br>
Subject: Re: [Cro Dreoilin] Up for Discussion: Do the Gods need<br>
worship?<br>
<br>
If "sacred" and "divine" mean the same, then what do(es) the<br>
word(s) _mean_?<br>
<br>
What word do you use to mean that which the Gods are and we are<br>
not, then?<br>
<br>
<br>
-- Kelley.<br>
<br>
Greyhart wrote:<br>
> To me, Sacred and Divine are the same. Something is Sacred,<br>
because it<br>
> is Divine. Since everything we know, is of Divine origin,<br>
everything is<br>
Sacred.<br>
><br>
> Based on my cosmology, where we are Divine, just separated from<br>
Deity<br>
> and given individuality for a time, we feel the need to<br>
reconnect with<br>
> the rest of Deity. It reminds us that we are not alone, and that<br>
there<br>
> is more to us than we can see in these limited constructs we<br>
currently<br>
inhabit.<br>
><br>
> Greyhart<br>
><br>
> -----Original Message-----<br>
> From: Kelley Forbes [mailto:<a href="mailto:forbesk@astronomytower.net" target="_blank">forbesk@<u></u>astronomytower.net</a><br>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:forbesk@astronomytower.net" target="_blank">forbesk@<u></u>astronomytower.net</a>>]<br>
> Sent: Friday, November 18, 2011 4:50 PM<br></div></div>
> To: <a href="mailto:greyhart@castle-luna.com" target="_blank">greyhart@castle-luna.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:greyhart@castle-luna.com" target="_blank">greyhart@castle-luna.<u></u>com</a>>;<br>
<a href="mailto:community@crodreoilin.org" target="_blank">community@crodreoilin.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:community@crodreoilin.org" target="_blank">community@crodreoilin.<u></u>org</a>><div class="im"><br>
> Cc: Kelley Forbes<br>
> Subject: Re: [Cro Dreoilin] Up for Discussion: Do the Gods need<br>
worship?<br>
><br>
> What do _you_ mean by "sacred" and "divine"?<br>
><br>
> When you say that _we_ need to worship, what does it do for us?<br>
Why do<br>
> we need to worship; What do you mean by "worship"?<br>
><br>
><br>
> -- Kelley.<br>
><br>
> Greyhart wrote:<br>
><br>
>> I guess it depends on what you mean by Sacred. To me, they are very<br>
>><br>
> similar.<br>
><br>
>> It seems to me that every people and culture has had some form of<br>
worship.<br>
>> We need to find something greater than ourselves to give honor and<br>
>><br>
> devotion<br>
><br>
>> to. We need to worship something.<br>
>><br>
>> Greyhart<br>
>><br>
>> -----Original Message-----<br>
>> From: Kelley Forbes [mailto:<a href="mailto:forbesk@astronomytower.net" target="_blank">forbesk@<u></u>astronomytower.net</a><br>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:forbesk@astronomytower.net" target="_blank">forbesk@<u></u>astronomytower.net</a>>]<br>
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 11:31 AM<br></div>
>> To: <a href="mailto:greyhart@castle-luna.com" target="_blank">greyhart@castle-luna.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:greyhart@castle-luna.com" target="_blank">greyhart@castle-luna.<u></u>com</a>>;<br>
<a href="mailto:community@crodreoilin.org" target="_blank">community@crodreoilin.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:community@crodreoilin.org" target="_blank">community@crodreoilin.<u></u>org</a>><div><div class="h5">
<br>
>> Cc: Kelley Forbes<br>
>> Subject: Re: [Cro Dreoilin] Up for Discussion: Do the Gods need<br>
worship?<br>
>><br>
>> If a God requires something, do they automatically need it?<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>>> I also believe that we are Divine, based on the fact that all of<br>
>>> creation was formed in a Divine act. Therefore everything within<br>
>>> creation must be Divine.<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>> I think that if you replace "Divine" in that with "sacred", it<br>
won't<br>
>> be<br>
>><br>
> too<br>
><br>
>> far off from what CRs believe. There _is_ a difference between<br>
us and<br>
>><br>
> Gods,<br>
><br>
>> however, but it's not one of worth.<br>
>><br>
>> In what way do you think we require worship?<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> -- Kelley.<br>
>><br>
>> Greyhart wrote:<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>>> Just got up (worked until 3am).<br>
>>><br>
>>> When I read the question, my first thought was also, 'what defines<br>
>>> worship?' because worship is a word that means many things to many<br>
>>> people. I personally like the definition you found, Sebastian.<br>
Most<br>
>>> people in this country equate worship with giving power over to<br>
>>> their Deity, and submitting themselves to the whims of that Deity.<br>
>>> If that is the sort of relationship that a particular God<br>
requires,<br>
>>> then they probably do need worship in order to exist.<br>
>>><br>
>>> This is the sort of relationship I have experienced with<br>
Christians.<br>
>>> The classic Trek episode, "Who Mourns For Adonis", which I believe<br>
>>> is the episode Charlotte referenced, (yes, I'm a Trek Geek) was<br>
>>> written about the crew meeting one of the classical Greek Gods,<br>
>>> Apollo. It was written from the Christian point of view, where<br>
Gods<br>
>>> are all powerful, and require humans to worship them in order to<br>
>>> exist. This is a very telling attitude that Christians seem to<br>
have.<br>
>>><br>
>>> I see Deity differently than what I've heard the CR's describe. To<br>
>>> me, Deity is ever present, and what we look at and describe as<br>
>>> individual Gods, are simply facets of the whole. I also<br>
believe that<br>
>>> we are Divine, based on the fact that all of creation was<br>
formed in<br>
>>> a Divine act. Therefore everything within creation must be Divine.<br>
>>> In simpler terms, using the Charge of The Goddess, if the Goddess<br>
>>> gave birth to all that there is, even though I myself was not part<br>
>>> of that original birth, I am Divine by right of inheritance. I am<br>
>>> the current culmination of whatever particles, atoms, or molecules<br>
>>> that the Goddess gave birth to. Looking at it that way, when we<br>
>>> worship the Gods, we are opening the connection between our<br>
>>> individual selves, and that great source we call Deity.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Do the Gods need or require worship? No, we do.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Greyhart<br>
>>><br>
>>> *From:* <a href="mailto:community-bounces@crodreoilin.org" target="_blank">community-bounces@crodreoilin.<u></u>org</a><br>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:community-bounces@crodreoilin.org" target="_blank">community-bounces@<u></u>crodreoilin.org</a>><br></div></div>
>>> [mailto:<a href="mailto:community-bounces@crodreoilin.org" target="_blank">community-bounces@<u></u>crodreoilin.org</a><div class="im"><br>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:community-bounces@crodreoilin.org" target="_blank">community-bounces@<u></u>crodreoilin.org</a>>] *On Behalf Of *Sebastian<br>
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 15, 2011 11:17 AM<br></div>
>>> *To:* <a href="mailto:community@crodreoilin.org" target="_blank">community@crodreoilin.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:community@crodreoilin.org" target="_blank">community@crodreoilin.<u></u>org</a>><div>
<div class="h5"><br>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Cro Dreoilin] Up for Discussion: Do the Gods need<br>
>>><br>
> worship?<br>
><br>
>>> In order to answer this question I admit that I checked the<br>
>>> dicitonary for a specific definition of "worship" to<br>
understand the<br>
>>> nuances of that term. There is the obvious connotation of<br>
>>> prostrating before the gods which seems to be why many pagans<br>
cringe<br>
>>> at the term. However, there is one possible definition that<br>
seems to<br>
>>> answer this question of "what do you mean by worship?" in my own<br>
>>> perspective. "formal or ceremonious rendering of [...] honor and<br>
>>> homage". Now, on to the bigger question of need. If we aproach<br>
need<br>
>>> as the idea that without our worship of them that they would fall<br>
>>> into disrepair or that they are so proud that they require<br>
>>> veneration for sustenance, I would say no. My answer would<br>
come from<br>
>>> the perspective of building a relationship as you would with<br>
another<br>
>>> person. In order to build a healthy relationship with another<br>
human,<br>
>>> there is an amount of give and take, and this is where the "need"<br>
>>> comes in to play. I wish to build a strong, healthy relationship<br>
>>> with the gods and ancestors and my half of the give and take comes<br>
>>> in the form of tanks, offerings, veneration and plain "good ole<br>
>>> fashion'd conversation". So, in short, if you desire not to have a<br>
>>> relationship with the gods, then no, they do not need worship.<br>
>>><br>
>>> ~Sebastian<br>
>>><br>
>>> On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 9:48 AM, Norman <<a href="mailto:planner1968@yahoo.com" target="_blank">planner1968@yahoo.com</a><br>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:planner1968@yahoo.com" target="_blank">planner1968@yahoo.com</a>><br></div></div>
>>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:planner1968@yahoo.com" target="_blank">planner1968@yahoo.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:planner1968@yahoo.com" target="_blank">planner1968@yahoo.com</a>><u></u>>><div class="im">
<br>
wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>> I am on the jump to run my day today but here are a few cent of my<br>
>>> thoughts on it. I do think that every deity needs attention. How<br>
>>> does that look and what is considered worship/ attention? If I ask<br>
>>> my deity for something and that's it, that in my opinion is not<br>
>>> attention or worship or however you call it. It's more about<br>
paying<br>
>>> more attention about the happenings,signs and communications<br>
in your<br>
>>> life and how you engage with them. You thank your deities, maybe<br>
>>> even write a little thank you note for a start. Just as you do<br>
with<br>
>>> the people. Get into a dialog. At a later point I will write more<br>
>>> but now on my way into the world conquering my kingdom:-)<br>
>>><br>
>>> Sent from my iPhone<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> On Nov 15, 2011, at 9:31 AM, Chris and Kelley<br>
>>> <<a href="mailto:chris.n.kelley@astronomytower.net" target="_blank">chris.n.kelley@<u></u>astronomytower.net</a><br>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:chris.n.kelley@astronomytower.net" target="_blank">chris.n.kelley@<u></u>astronomytower.net</a>><br></div>
>>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:chris.n.kelley@astronomytower.net" target="_blank">chris.n.kelley@<u></u>astronomytower.net</a><div class="im"><br>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:chris.n.kelley@astronomytower.net" target="_blank">chris.n.kelley@<u></u>astronomytower.net</a>>>> wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>>> In the interest of getting more discussion going on this list,<br>
>>>> we're<br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>> going to start posting some topics for talk.<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>>> Our first topic: Do the Gods need worship?<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> This is not just a yes or no answer; there are lot of<br>
questions in<br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>> this one question. Consider: Which Gods are we talking about? What<br>
>>> do we mean by "need"? What do we mean by "worship"?<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>>> Have at it.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> -- Chris and Kelley.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> ______________________________<u></u>_________________<br>
>>>> Community mailing list<br>
>>>> <a href="mailto:Community@crodreoilin.org" target="_blank">Community@crodreoilin.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Community@crodreoilin.org" target="_blank">Community@crodreoilin.<u></u>org</a>><br>
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<br>
>>>> <a href="http://crodreoilin.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community" target="_blank">http://crodreoilin.org/cgi-<u></u>bin/mailman/listinfo/community</a><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
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>>> Community mailing list<br>
>>> <a href="mailto:Community@crodreoilin.org" target="_blank">Community@crodreoilin.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Community@crodreoilin.org" target="_blank">Community@crodreoilin.<u></u>org</a>><br>
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<br>
>>> <a href="http://crodreoilin.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community" target="_blank">http://crodreoilin.org/cgi-<u></u>bin/mailman/listinfo/community</a><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
------------------------------<u></u>------------------------------<u></u>--------<br>
>>> --<br>
>>> --<br>
>>><br>
>>> ______________________________<u></u>_________________<br>
>>> Community mailing list<br>
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>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
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<br></div><div class="im">
-- <br>
"We've begun to long for the pitter-patter of little feet - so we bought a dog. Well, it's cheaper, and you get more feet. "<br>
~Rita Rudner<br></div>
------------------------------<u></u>------------------------------<u></u>------------<div class="im"><br>
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</div></blockquote><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5">
<br>
<br>
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>"We've begun to long for the pitter-patter of little feet - so we bought a dog. Well, it's cheaper, and you get more feet. " <br>~Rita Rudner<br>