[Cro Dreoilin] Up for Discussion: Do the Gods need worship?
Kelley Forbes
forbesk at astronomytower.net
Fri Nov 25 12:32:18 MST 2011
<hehe> Love this:
"... otherwise it's like an awkward Thanksgiving dinner with relatives
you don't really know."
Don't forget to call your Aunt Fand every Friday!
-- Kelley.
Katie Murphy wrote:
> Okay, well, Greyhart encouraged me to respond, so, we'll see what I
> come up with. I've mostly been reading and I agree with a lot of
> what's been said (I really liked Sebastian's definition of worship,
> for instance).
>
> As for me, personally? I'm not sure if the Gods NEED worship. I sort
> of think that they more LIKE being worshiped, rather than they NEED it
> to survive, if that makes sense. Sort of how you don't really NEED to
> see your extended family once a year but it's nice to see them more
> often if you can; most of my friends seem to see their aunts and
> uncles once a year but rarely more often than that and they don't
> really have a good relationship with those relatives. So, I think that
> it's important to worship the Gods regularly in a way that feels
> comfortable to you in order to build a relationship with Them,
> otherwise it's like an awkward Thanksgiving dinner with relatives you
> don't really know.
>
> Just my two cents.
>
> --Katie
>
> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 2:42 PM, Greyhart <greyhart at castle-luna.com
> <mailto:greyhart at castle-luna.com>> wrote:
>
> Words like corporeal, finite, and mortal come to mind to describe
> us, but
> that only describes our physical presence. Spiritually, we are Divine.
>
> Greyhart
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: community-bounces at crodreoilin.org
> <mailto:community-bounces at crodreoilin.org>
> [mailto:community-bounces at crodreoilin.org
> <mailto:community-bounces at crodreoilin.org>] On Behalf Of Kelley Forbes
> Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 11:03 AM
> To: community at crodreoilin.org <mailto:community at crodreoilin.org>
> Cc: Kelley Forbes
> Subject: Re: [Cro Dreoilin] Up for Discussion: Do the Gods need
> worship?
>
> If "sacred" and "divine" mean the same, then what do(es) the
> word(s) _mean_?
>
> What word do you use to mean that which the Gods are and we are
> not, then?
>
>
> -- Kelley.
>
> Greyhart wrote:
> > To me, Sacred and Divine are the same. Something is Sacred,
> because it
> > is Divine. Since everything we know, is of Divine origin,
> everything is
> Sacred.
> >
> > Based on my cosmology, where we are Divine, just separated from
> Deity
> > and given individuality for a time, we feel the need to
> reconnect with
> > the rest of Deity. It reminds us that we are not alone, and that
> there
> > is more to us than we can see in these limited constructs we
> currently
> inhabit.
> >
> > Greyhart
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Kelley Forbes [mailto:forbesk at astronomytower.net
> <mailto:forbesk at astronomytower.net>]
> > Sent: Friday, November 18, 2011 4:50 PM
> > To: greyhart at castle-luna.com <mailto:greyhart at castle-luna.com>;
> community at crodreoilin.org <mailto:community at crodreoilin.org>
> > Cc: Kelley Forbes
> > Subject: Re: [Cro Dreoilin] Up for Discussion: Do the Gods need
> worship?
> >
> > What do _you_ mean by "sacred" and "divine"?
> >
> > When you say that _we_ need to worship, what does it do for us?
> Why do
> > we need to worship; What do you mean by "worship"?
> >
> >
> > -- Kelley.
> >
> > Greyhart wrote:
> >
> >> I guess it depends on what you mean by Sacred. To me, they are very
> >>
> > similar.
> >
> >> It seems to me that every people and culture has had some form of
> worship.
> >> We need to find something greater than ourselves to give honor and
> >>
> > devotion
> >
> >> to. We need to worship something.
> >>
> >> Greyhart
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Kelley Forbes [mailto:forbesk at astronomytower.net
> <mailto:forbesk at astronomytower.net>]
> >> Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 11:31 AM
> >> To: greyhart at castle-luna.com <mailto:greyhart at castle-luna.com>;
> community at crodreoilin.org <mailto:community at crodreoilin.org>
> >> Cc: Kelley Forbes
> >> Subject: Re: [Cro Dreoilin] Up for Discussion: Do the Gods need
> worship?
> >>
> >> If a God requires something, do they automatically need it?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> I also believe that we are Divine, based on the fact that all of
> >>> creation was formed in a Divine act. Therefore everything within
> >>> creation must be Divine.
> >>>
> >>>
> >> I think that if you replace "Divine" in that with "sacred", it
> won't
> >> be
> >>
> > too
> >
> >> far off from what CRs believe. There _is_ a difference between
> us and
> >>
> > Gods,
> >
> >> however, but it's not one of worth.
> >>
> >> In what way do you think we require worship?
> >>
> >>
> >> -- Kelley.
> >>
> >> Greyhart wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> Just got up (worked until 3am).
> >>>
> >>> When I read the question, my first thought was also, 'what defines
> >>> worship?' because worship is a word that means many things to many
> >>> people. I personally like the definition you found, Sebastian.
> Most
> >>> people in this country equate worship with giving power over to
> >>> their Deity, and submitting themselves to the whims of that Deity.
> >>> If that is the sort of relationship that a particular God
> requires,
> >>> then they probably do need worship in order to exist.
> >>>
> >>> This is the sort of relationship I have experienced with
> Christians.
> >>> The classic Trek episode, "Who Mourns For Adonis", which I believe
> >>> is the episode Charlotte referenced, (yes, I'm a Trek Geek) was
> >>> written about the crew meeting one of the classical Greek Gods,
> >>> Apollo. It was written from the Christian point of view, where
> Gods
> >>> are all powerful, and require humans to worship them in order to
> >>> exist. This is a very telling attitude that Christians seem to
> have.
> >>>
> >>> I see Deity differently than what I've heard the CR's describe. To
> >>> me, Deity is ever present, and what we look at and describe as
> >>> individual Gods, are simply facets of the whole. I also
> believe that
> >>> we are Divine, based on the fact that all of creation was
> formed in
> >>> a Divine act. Therefore everything within creation must be Divine.
> >>> In simpler terms, using the Charge of The Goddess, if the Goddess
> >>> gave birth to all that there is, even though I myself was not part
> >>> of that original birth, I am Divine by right of inheritance. I am
> >>> the current culmination of whatever particles, atoms, or molecules
> >>> that the Goddess gave birth to. Looking at it that way, when we
> >>> worship the Gods, we are opening the connection between our
> >>> individual selves, and that great source we call Deity.
> >>>
> >>> Do the Gods need or require worship? No, we do.
> >>>
> >>> Greyhart
> >>>
> >>> *From:* community-bounces at crodreoilin.org
> <mailto:community-bounces at crodreoilin.org>
> >>> [mailto:community-bounces at crodreoilin.org
> <mailto:community-bounces at crodreoilin.org>] *On Behalf Of *Sebastian
> >>> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 15, 2011 11:17 AM
> >>> *To:* community at crodreoilin.org <mailto:community at crodreoilin.org>
> >>> *Subject:* Re: [Cro Dreoilin] Up for Discussion: Do the Gods need
> >>>
> > worship?
> >
> >>> In order to answer this question I admit that I checked the
> >>> dicitonary for a specific definition of "worship" to
> understand the
> >>> nuances of that term. There is the obvious connotation of
> >>> prostrating before the gods which seems to be why many pagans
> cringe
> >>> at the term. However, there is one possible definition that
> seems to
> >>> answer this question of "what do you mean by worship?" in my own
> >>> perspective. "formal or ceremonious rendering of [...] honor and
> >>> homage". Now, on to the bigger question of need. If we aproach
> need
> >>> as the idea that without our worship of them that they would fall
> >>> into disrepair or that they are so proud that they require
> >>> veneration for sustenance, I would say no. My answer would
> come from
> >>> the perspective of building a relationship as you would with
> another
> >>> person. In order to build a healthy relationship with another
> human,
> >>> there is an amount of give and take, and this is where the "need"
> >>> comes in to play. I wish to build a strong, healthy relationship
> >>> with the gods and ancestors and my half of the give and take comes
> >>> in the form of tanks, offerings, veneration and plain "good ole
> >>> fashion'd conversation". So, in short, if you desire not to have a
> >>> relationship with the gods, then no, they do not need worship.
> >>>
> >>> ~Sebastian
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 9:48 AM, Norman <planner1968 at yahoo.com
> <mailto:planner1968 at yahoo.com>
> >>> <mailto:planner1968 at yahoo.com <mailto:planner1968 at yahoo.com>>>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I am on the jump to run my day today but here are a few cent of my
> >>> thoughts on it. I do think that every deity needs attention. How
> >>> does that look and what is considered worship/ attention? If I ask
> >>> my deity for something and that's it, that in my opinion is not
> >>> attention or worship or however you call it. It's more about
> paying
> >>> more attention about the happenings,signs and communications
> in your
> >>> life and how you engage with them. You thank your deities, maybe
> >>> even write a little thank you note for a start. Just as you do
> with
> >>> the people. Get into a dialog. At a later point I will write more
> >>> but now on my way into the world conquering my kingdom:-)
> >>>
> >>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Nov 15, 2011, at 9:31 AM, Chris and Kelley
> >>> <chris.n.kelley at astronomytower.net
> <mailto:chris.n.kelley at astronomytower.net>
> >>> <mailto:chris.n.kelley at astronomytower.net
> <mailto:chris.n.kelley at astronomytower.net>>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> In the interest of getting more discussion going on this list,
> >>>> we're
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> going to start posting some topics for talk.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Our first topic: Do the Gods need worship?
> >>>>
> >>>> This is not just a yes or no answer; there are lot of
> questions in
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> this one question. Consider: Which Gods are we talking about? What
> >>> do we mean by "need"? What do we mean by "worship"?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Have at it.
> >>>>
> >>>> -- Chris and Kelley.
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
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> <mailto:Community at crodreoilin.org <mailto:Community at crodreoilin.org>>
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> >>>>
> >>>>
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> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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> "We've begun to long for the pitter-patter of little feet - so we
> bought a dog. Well, it's cheaper, and you get more feet. "
> ~Rita Rudner
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