[Cro Dreoilin] "Shoulds"
Chris Redmond
redmond at astronomytower.net
Thu Dec 1 16:01:36 MST 2011
On a related note, is "they will be pissed" actually enough of a reason
in any case? Suppose that a God of, say, the Kemetic tradition had
taken an interest in you, and you know that he/she would be annoyed if
you did not respond in kind. Would you choose to worship this God
purely to avoid divine pissed-offedness?
-- Chris
> So two questions:
>
> 1. What values do your answers represent?
>
> 2. Why should you worship the Gods that call to you rather than, say,
> Gods you have chosen? -- or picked randomly out of a hat? You have an
> answer in "they will be pissed"; is there more to it than that?
>
>
> -- Kelley.
>
>
> Sebastian wrote:
>> I should follow the god(s) that call to me because I respect them and
>> wish to build a lasting relationship with them.
>> Or in some cases, "I should follow the god(s) that call to me because
>> otherwise they will be pissed."
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 9:16 AM, Donna Miller <dmiller at faerealm.com
>> <mailto:dmiller at faerealm.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Okay, let me go at it. I do not follow Celtic spiritual
>> traditions, being more drawn to ancient Persian spiritual
>> traditions. I follow Celtic musical traditions which is tied
>> into Celtic spirituality no matter what the Irish will tell you.
>> I still know nothing about the Celtic reconstructionist
>> traditions other than what Chris and Kelly taught us at the
>> Jeffco CUUPS event.
>>
>> My own take on religion is that it exists, not for the god(s)'s
>> sake but for the purpose of building society. The rules of the
>> religion will mirror the religious community's strongest values,
>> not the other way around. What "offends the god" is what
>> disrupts society. Religion exists for man, not for god(dess)(s).
>> Yet the worship of a god strengthens the value that said god
>> represents.
>>
>> What are the shoulds that build Celtic Reconstructionist society?
>> You are very open in belief but there should be guidelines set
>> down that are forbidden. Usually they have more to do to the
>> needs of the people in it than the tradition at hand.
>>
>> Enlighten me.
>>
>> DSM
>>
>>
>> On 11/26/2011 8:39 AM, Kelley Forbes wrote:
>>
>> Alrighty, let's play the game:
>>
>> "You should follow the God(s) that you feel call to you,"
>> because -- ?
>>
>>
>> -- Kelley & Chris.
>>
>> Katie Murphy wrote:
>>
>> Yes, definitely, you should follow the God(s) that you
>> feel call to you, rather than the God(s) that your
>> parents/family/what have you expect you to
>> follow/worship. Like, Brad's parents expect him to be
>> Christian but it was never really true to him.
>>
>> However, I can understand the importance of stopping and
>> checking ourselves for outside (say, Christian)
>> moralistic views when it comes to approaching daily life
>> and our Gods.
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 1:58 PM, Greyhart
>> <greyhart at castle-luna.com
>> <mailto:greyhart at castle-luna.com>
>> <mailto:greyhart at castle-luna.com
>> <mailto:greyhart at castle-luna.com>>> wrote:
>>
>> I think what both Sue and Katie are trying to get
>> across, is that
>> it is
>> better to honor, worship, follow, whatever, the Gods
>> who call you,
>> rather
>> than the God(s) your family expect(s) you to. I may be
>> wrong on
>> that, but
>> that's what I'm getting from their posts.
>>
>> Greyhart
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: community-bounces at crodreoilin.org
>> <mailto:community-bounces at crodreoilin.org>
>> <mailto:community-bounces at crodreoilin.org
>> <mailto:community-bounces at crodreoilin.org>>
>> [mailto:community-bounces at crodreoilin.org
>> <mailto:community-bounces at crodreoilin.org>
>> <mailto:community-bounces at crodreoilin.org
>> <mailto:community-bounces at crodreoilin.org>>] On Behalf Of
>> Kelley Forbes
>> Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 12:01 PM
>> To: community at crodreoilin.org
>> <mailto:community at crodreoilin.org>
>> <mailto:community at crodreoilin.org
>> <mailto:community at crodreoilin.org>>
>> Cc: Kelley Forbes
>> Subject: Re: [Cro Dreoilin] "Shoulds"
>>
>> I think wanting to do something is, truly, very
>> important; it is,
>> however,
>> only peripherally related to what I was saying.
>>
>> There are different parts that "wanting" can play when
>> we are
>> talking about
>> living up to our values. We can want something
>> physically or
>> emotionally or
>> mentally or spiritually/philosophically. Sometimes those
>> different wants
>> can come into conflict. We can, for instance, choose
>> to do
>> something we
>> would otherwise not want to do, because we also want
>> to live up a
>> certain
>> set of values.
>>
>> The crux of it is that, even in this situation, we
>> need to be able
>> to say
>> what value or values we are living up to. When we are
>> specifically dealing
>> with aesthetic wants and choices, if we find ourselves
>> substituting the
>> "because it will ..." phrase with " ... because I want
>> to," too
>> often, it
>> can be an indication that we are masking moralistic
>> behavior. In
>> this case,
>> "wanting" can mean the internalization of societal
>> norms to the
>> point that
>> we can't separate our own choice from what we have
>> been brought up to
>> believe is true.
>>
>>
>> -- Kelley.
>>
>>
>> Katie Murphy wrote:
>> > I like what Sue said about this. I think that doing
>> something out of
>> > obligation isn't as meaningful as doing something
>> because you
>> WANT to.
>> >
>> > --Katie
>> >
>> > On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 3:21 PM, sue blackmore
>> > <sblackmore1966 at gmail.com
>> <mailto:sblackmore1966 at gmail.com>
>> <mailto:sblackmore1966 at gmail.com
>> <mailto:sblackmore1966 at gmail.com>>
>> <mailto:sblackmore1966 at gmail.com
>> <mailto:sblackmore1966 at gmail.com>
>> <mailto:sblackmore1966 at gmail.com
>> <mailto:sblackmore1966 at gmail.com>>>> wrote:
>> >
>> > It has been said that the best reason to do anything is
>> because we
>> > want to. So we say please, step out of our comfort
>> zone and
>> > venerate our gods not because we should or its
>> polite or the
>> gods
>> > need it but because we want to.
>> >
>> > On Nov 20, 2011 3:08 PM, "Charlotte Blackwood"
>> > <charlotte.blackwood at gmail.com
>> <mailto:charlotte.blackwood at gmail.com>
>> <mailto:charlotte.blackwood at gmail.com
>> <mailto:charlotte.blackwood at gmail.com>>
>> > <mailto:charlotte.blackwood at gmail.com
>> <mailto:charlotte.blackwood at gmail.com>
>> <mailto:charlotte.blackwood at gmail.com
>> <mailto:charlotte.blackwood at gmail.com>>>> wrote:
>> >
>> > You are so cool :) Thanks for that email :)
>> >
>> > On 11/20/11, Kelley Forbes
>> <forbesk at astronomytower.net
>> <mailto:forbesk at astronomytower.net>
>> <mailto:forbesk at astronomytower.net
>> <mailto:forbesk at astronomytower.net>>
>> > <mailto:forbesk at astronomytower.net
>> <mailto:forbesk at astronomytower.net>
>> <mailto:forbesk at astronomytower.net
>> <mailto:forbesk at astronomytower.net>>>> wrote:
>> > > One interesting thing this topic of "needs" has me
>> thinking
>> > about is the
>> > > place that "shoulds" have in our religion.
>> > >
>> > > In a values-based aesthetic, there are no independent
>> > "should" actions
>> > > or rules; there are no "thou shalts" or "thou shalt
>> nots".
>> > Every time
>> > > you think of yourself as "having to" or "must" or "should
>> > do", then you
>> > > should be able to complete the phrase "because it will
>> ____".
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > "I should open the door, because it is hospitable to
>> do so."
>> > >
>> > > "I should say 'please', because I am acknowledging the
>> right
>> > of the
>> > > person to say no, and that builds independence and
>> community."
>> > >
>> > > "I should step out of my comfort zone, because it is
>> > courageous."
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > If you catch yourself having a bunch of "should" thoughts
>> > and not being
>> > > able to complete that sentence, then you need to ask
>> > yourself what
>> > > ethics you are caring around with you that are someone
>> > else's rules,
>> > > most likely picked up from our decidedly moral-based
>> culture.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > -- Kelley.
>> > >
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>> > "We've begun to long for the pitter-patter of little
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