[Cro Dreoilin] "Shoulds"

Chris Redmond redmond at astronomytower.net
Thu Dec 1 16:01:36 MST 2011


On a related note, is "they will be pissed" actually enough of a reason 
in any case?  Suppose that a God of, say, the Kemetic tradition had 
taken an interest in you, and you know that he/she would be annoyed if 
you did not respond in kind.  Would you choose to worship this God 
purely to avoid divine pissed-offedness?

-- Chris


> So two questions:
>
> 1. What values do your answers represent?
>
> 2. Why should you worship the Gods that call to you rather than, say, 
> Gods you have chosen? -- or picked randomly out of a hat? You have an 
> answer in "they will be pissed"; is there more to it than that?
>
>
> -- Kelley.
>
>
> Sebastian wrote:
>> I should follow the god(s) that call to me because I respect them and 
>> wish to build a lasting relationship with them.
>> Or in some cases, "I should follow the god(s) that call to me because 
>> otherwise they will be pissed."
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 9:16 AM, Donna Miller <dmiller at faerealm.com 
>> <mailto:dmiller at faerealm.com>> wrote:
>>
>>     Okay, let me go at it.  I do not follow Celtic spiritual
>>     traditions, being more drawn to ancient Persian spiritual
>>     traditions.  I follow Celtic musical traditions which is tied
>>     into Celtic spirituality no matter what the Irish will tell you.
>>      I still know nothing about the Celtic reconstructionist
>>     traditions other than what Chris and Kelly taught us at the
>>     Jeffco CUUPS event.
>>
>>     My own take on religion is that it exists, not for the god(s)'s
>>     sake but for the purpose of building society.  The rules of the
>>     religion will mirror the religious community's strongest values,
>>     not the other way around.  What "offends the god" is what
>>     disrupts society.  Religion exists for man, not for god(dess)(s).
>>      Yet the worship of a god strengthens the value that said god
>>     represents.
>>
>>     What are the shoulds that build Celtic Reconstructionist society?
>>      You are very open in belief but there should be guidelines set
>>     down that are forbidden.  Usually they have more to do to the
>>     needs of the people in it than the tradition at hand.
>>
>>     Enlighten me.
>>
>>     DSM
>>
>>
>>     On 11/26/2011 8:39 AM, Kelley Forbes wrote:
>>
>>         Alrighty, let's play the game:
>>
>>         "You should follow the God(s) that you feel call to you,"
>>         because -- ?
>>
>>
>>         -- Kelley & Chris.
>>
>>         Katie Murphy wrote:
>>
>>             Yes, definitely, you should follow the God(s) that you
>>             feel call to you, rather than the God(s) that your
>>             parents/family/what have you expect you to
>>             follow/worship. Like, Brad's parents expect him to be
>>             Christian but it was never really true to him.
>>
>>             However, I can understand the importance of stopping and
>>             checking ourselves for outside (say, Christian)
>>             moralistic views when it comes to approaching daily life
>>             and our Gods.
>>
>>             On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 1:58 PM, Greyhart
>>             <greyhart at castle-luna.com
>>             <mailto:greyhart at castle-luna.com>
>>             <mailto:greyhart at castle-luna.com
>>             <mailto:greyhart at castle-luna.com>>> wrote:
>>
>>                I think what both Sue and Katie are trying to get
>>             across, is that
>>                it is
>>                better to honor, worship, follow, whatever, the Gods
>>             who call you,
>>                rather
>>                than the God(s) your family expect(s) you to. I may be
>>             wrong on
>>                that, but
>>                that's what I'm getting from their posts.
>>
>>                Greyhart
>>
>>                -----Original Message-----
>>                From: community-bounces at crodreoilin.org
>>             <mailto:community-bounces at crodreoilin.org>
>>             <mailto:community-bounces at crodreoilin.org
>>             <mailto:community-bounces at crodreoilin.org>>
>>                [mailto:community-bounces at crodreoilin.org
>>             <mailto:community-bounces at crodreoilin.org>
>>             <mailto:community-bounces at crodreoilin.org
>>             <mailto:community-bounces at crodreoilin.org>>] On Behalf Of
>>             Kelley Forbes
>>                Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 12:01 PM
>>                To: community at crodreoilin.org
>>             <mailto:community at crodreoilin.org>
>>             <mailto:community at crodreoilin.org
>>             <mailto:community at crodreoilin.org>>
>>                Cc: Kelley Forbes
>>                Subject: Re: [Cro Dreoilin] "Shoulds"
>>
>>                I think wanting to do something is, truly, very
>>             important; it is,
>>                however,
>>                only peripherally related to what I was saying.
>>
>>                There are different parts that "wanting" can play when
>>             we are
>>                talking about
>>                living up to our values. We can want something
>>             physically or
>>                emotionally or
>>                mentally or spiritually/philosophically.  Sometimes those
>>                different wants
>>                can come into conflict.  We can, for instance, choose
>>             to do
>>                something we
>>                would otherwise not want to do, because we also want
>>             to live up a
>>                certain
>>                set of values.
>>
>>                The crux of it is that, even in this situation, we
>>             need to be able
>>                to say
>>                what value or values we are living up to.  When we are
>>                specifically dealing
>>                with aesthetic wants and choices, if we find ourselves
>>                substituting the
>>                "because it will ..." phrase with " ... because I want
>>             to," too
>>                often, it
>>                can be an indication that we are masking moralistic
>>             behavior.  In
>>                this case,
>>                "wanting" can mean the internalization of societal
>>             norms to the
>>                point that
>>                we can't separate our own choice from what we have
>>             been brought up to
>>                believe is true.
>>
>>
>>                -- Kelley.
>>
>>
>>                Katie Murphy wrote:
>>             > I like what Sue said about this. I think that doing
>>             something out of
>>             > obligation isn't as meaningful as doing something
>>             because you
>>                WANT to.
>>             >
>>             > --Katie
>>             >
>>             > On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 3:21 PM, sue blackmore
>>             > <sblackmore1966 at gmail.com
>>             <mailto:sblackmore1966 at gmail.com>
>>             <mailto:sblackmore1966 at gmail.com
>>             <mailto:sblackmore1966 at gmail.com>>
>>             <mailto:sblackmore1966 at gmail.com
>>             <mailto:sblackmore1966 at gmail.com>
>>             <mailto:sblackmore1966 at gmail.com
>>             <mailto:sblackmore1966 at gmail.com>>>> wrote:
>>             >
>>             >     It has been said that the best reason to do anything is
>>                because we
>>             >     want to. So we say please, step out of our comfort
>>             zone and
>>             >     venerate our gods not because we should or its
>>             polite or the
>>                gods
>>             >     need it but because we want to.
>>             >
>>             >     On Nov 20, 2011 3:08 PM, "Charlotte Blackwood"
>>             > <charlotte.blackwood at gmail.com
>>             <mailto:charlotte.blackwood at gmail.com>
>>             <mailto:charlotte.blackwood at gmail.com
>>             <mailto:charlotte.blackwood at gmail.com>>
>>             > <mailto:charlotte.blackwood at gmail.com
>>             <mailto:charlotte.blackwood at gmail.com>
>>             <mailto:charlotte.blackwood at gmail.com
>>             <mailto:charlotte.blackwood at gmail.com>>>> wrote:
>>             >
>>             >         You are so cool :)  Thanks for that email :)
>>             >
>>             >         On 11/20/11, Kelley Forbes
>>             <forbesk at astronomytower.net
>>             <mailto:forbesk at astronomytower.net>
>>             <mailto:forbesk at astronomytower.net
>>             <mailto:forbesk at astronomytower.net>>
>>             > <mailto:forbesk at astronomytower.net
>>             <mailto:forbesk at astronomytower.net>
>>             <mailto:forbesk at astronomytower.net
>>             <mailto:forbesk at astronomytower.net>>>> wrote:
>>             > > One interesting thing this topic of "needs" has me
>>                thinking
>>             >         about is the
>>             > > place that "shoulds" have in our religion.
>>             > >
>>             > > In a values-based aesthetic, there are no independent
>>             >         "should" actions
>>             > > or rules; there are no "thou shalts" or "thou shalt
>>             nots".
>>             >         Every time
>>             > > you think of yourself as "having to" or "must" or "should
>>             >         do", then you
>>             > > should be able to complete the phrase "because it will
>>                ____".
>>             > >
>>             > >
>>             > > "I should open the door, because it is hospitable to
>>                do so."
>>             > >
>>             > > "I should say 'please', because I am acknowledging the
>>                right
>>             >         of the
>>             > > person to say no, and that builds independence and
>>                community."
>>             > >
>>             > > "I should step out of my comfort zone, because it is
>>             >         courageous."
>>             > >
>>             > >
>>             > > If you catch yourself having a bunch of "should" thoughts
>>             >         and not being
>>             > > able to complete that sentence, then you need to ask
>>             >         yourself what
>>             > > ethics you are caring around with you that are someone
>>             >         else's rules,
>>             > > most likely picked up from our decidedly moral-based
>>                culture.
>>             > >
>>             > >
>>             > > -- Kelley.
>>             > >
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>>             -- 
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>>             ~Rita Rudner
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