[Cro Dreoilin] Up for Discussion: Do the Gods need worship?

Greyhart greyhart at castle-luna.com
Mon Nov 21 14:42:05 MST 2011 

Words like corporeal, finite, and mortal come to mind to describe us, but
that only describes our physical presence. Spiritually, we are Divine. 

Greyhart

-----Original Message-----
From: community-bounces at crodreoilin.org
[mailto:community-bounces at crodreoilin.org] On Behalf Of Kelley Forbes
Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 11:03 AM
To: community at crodreoilin.org
Cc: Kelley Forbes
Subject: Re: [Cro Dreoilin] Up for Discussion: Do the Gods need worship?

If "sacred" and "divine" mean the same, then what do(es) the word(s) _mean_?

What word do you use to mean that which the Gods are and we are not, then?


-- Kelley.

Greyhart wrote:
> To me, Sacred and Divine are the same. Something is Sacred, because it 
> is Divine. Since everything we know, is of Divine origin, everything is
Sacred.
>
> Based on my cosmology, where we are Divine, just separated from Deity 
> and given individuality for a time, we feel the need to reconnect with 
> the rest of Deity. It reminds us that we are not alone, and that there 
> is more to us than we can see in these limited constructs we currently
inhabit.
>
> Greyhart
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kelley Forbes [mailto:forbesk at astronomytower.net]
> Sent: Friday, November 18, 2011 4:50 PM
> To: greyhart at castle-luna.com; community at crodreoilin.org
> Cc: Kelley Forbes
> Subject: Re: [Cro Dreoilin] Up for Discussion: Do the Gods need worship?
>
> What do _you_ mean by "sacred" and "divine"?
>
> When you say that _we_ need to worship, what does it do for us? Why do 
> we need to worship; What do you mean by "worship"?
>
>
> -- Kelley.
>
> Greyhart wrote:
>   
>> I guess it depends on what you mean by Sacred. To me, they are very
>>     
> similar.
>   
>> It seems to me that every people and culture has had some form of
worship.
>> We need to find something greater than ourselves to give honor and
>>     
> devotion
>   
>> to. We need to worship something.
>>
>> Greyhart
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Kelley Forbes [mailto:forbesk at astronomytower.net]
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 11:31 AM
>> To: greyhart at castle-luna.com; community at crodreoilin.org
>> Cc: Kelley Forbes
>> Subject: Re: [Cro Dreoilin] Up for Discussion: Do the Gods need worship?
>>
>> If a God requires something, do they automatically need it?
>>
>>   
>>     
>>> I also believe that we are Divine, based on the fact that all of 
>>> creation was formed in a Divine act. Therefore everything within 
>>> creation must be Divine.
>>>     
>>>       
>> I think that if you replace "Divine" in that with "sacred", it won't 
>> be
>>     
> too
>   
>> far off from what CRs believe. There _is_ a difference between us and
>>     
> Gods,
>   
>> however, but it's not one of worth.
>>
>> In what way do you think we require worship?
>>
>>
>> -- Kelley.
>>
>> Greyhart wrote:
>>   
>>     
>>> Just got up (worked until 3am).
>>>
>>> When I read the question, my first thought was also, 'what defines 
>>> worship?' because worship is a word that means many things to many 
>>> people. I personally like the definition you found, Sebastian. Most 
>>> people in this country equate worship with giving power over to 
>>> their Deity, and submitting themselves to the whims of that Deity. 
>>> If that is the sort of relationship that a particular God requires, 
>>> then they probably do need worship in order to exist.
>>>
>>> This is the sort of relationship I have experienced with Christians. 
>>> The classic Trek episode, "Who Mourns For Adonis", which I believe 
>>> is the episode Charlotte referenced, (yes, I'm a Trek Geek) was 
>>> written about the crew meeting one of the classical Greek Gods, 
>>> Apollo. It was written from the Christian point of view, where Gods 
>>> are all powerful, and require humans to worship them in order to 
>>> exist. This is a very telling attitude that Christians seem to have.
>>>
>>> I see Deity differently than what I've heard the CR's describe. To 
>>> me, Deity is ever present, and what we look at and describe as 
>>> individual Gods, are simply facets of the whole. I also believe that 
>>> we are Divine, based on the fact that all of creation was formed in 
>>> a Divine act. Therefore everything within creation must be Divine. 
>>> In simpler terms, using the Charge of The Goddess, if the Goddess 
>>> gave birth to all that there is, even though I myself was not part 
>>> of that original birth, I am Divine by right of inheritance. I am 
>>> the current culmination of whatever particles, atoms, or molecules 
>>> that the Goddess gave birth to. Looking at it that way, when we 
>>> worship the Gods, we are opening the connection between our 
>>> individual selves, and that great source we call Deity.
>>>
>>> Do the Gods need or require worship? No, we do.
>>>
>>> Greyhart
>>>
>>> *From:* community-bounces at crodreoilin.org 
>>> [mailto:community-bounces at crodreoilin.org] *On Behalf Of *Sebastian
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 15, 2011 11:17 AM
>>> *To:* community at crodreoilin.org
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Cro Dreoilin] Up for Discussion: Do the Gods need
>>>       
> worship?
>   
>>> In order to answer this question I admit that I checked the 
>>> dicitonary for a specific definition of "worship" to understand the 
>>> nuances of that term. There is the obvious connotation of 
>>> prostrating before the gods which seems to be why many pagans cringe 
>>> at the term. However, there is one possible definition that seems to 
>>> answer this question of "what do you mean by worship?" in my own 
>>> perspective. "formal or ceremonious rendering of [...] honor and 
>>> homage". Now, on to the bigger question of need. If we aproach need 
>>> as the idea that without our worship of them that they would fall 
>>> into disrepair or that they are so proud that they require 
>>> veneration for sustenance, I would say no. My answer would come from 
>>> the perspective of building a relationship as you would with another 
>>> person. In order to build a healthy relationship with another human, 
>>> there is an amount of give and take, and this is where the "need" 
>>> comes in to play. I wish to build a strong, healthy relationship 
>>> with the gods and ancestors and my half of the give and take comes 
>>> in the form of tanks, offerings, veneration and plain "good ole 
>>> fashion'd conversation". So, in short, if you desire not to have a 
>>> relationship with the gods, then no, they do not need worship.
>>>
>>> ~Sebastian
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 9:48 AM, Norman <planner1968 at yahoo.com 
>>> <mailto:planner1968 at yahoo.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I am on the jump to run my day today but here are a few cent of my 
>>> thoughts on it. I do think that every deity needs attention. How 
>>> does that look and what is considered worship/ attention? If I ask 
>>> my deity for something and that's it, that in my opinion is not 
>>> attention or worship or however you call it. It's more about paying 
>>> more attention about the happenings,signs and communications in your 
>>> life and how you engage with them. You thank your deities, maybe 
>>> even write a little thank you note for a start. Just as you do with 
>>> the people. Get into a dialog. At a later point I will write more 
>>> but now on my way into the world conquering my kingdom:-)
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>
>>> On Nov 15, 2011, at 9:31 AM, Chris and Kelley 
>>> <chris.n.kelley at astronomytower.net
>>> <mailto:chris.n.kelley at astronomytower.net>> wrote:
>>>
>>>     
>>>       
>>>> In the interest of getting more discussion going on this list, 
>>>> we're
>>>>       
>>>>         
>>> going to start posting some topics for talk.
>>>     
>>>       
>>>> Our first topic: Do the Gods need worship?
>>>>
>>>> This is not just a yes or no answer; there are lot of questions in
>>>>       
>>>>         
>>> this one question. Consider: Which Gods are we talking about? What 
>>> do we mean by "need"? What do we mean by "worship"?
>>>     
>>>       
>>>> Have at it.
>>>>
>>>> -- Chris and Kelley.
>>>>
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>>>>       
>>>>         
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>>>   
>>>     
>>>       
>>   
>>     
>
>
>   


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