[Cro Dreoilin] Up for Discussion: Do the Gods need worship?

Kelley Forbes forbesk at astronomytower.net
Sun Nov 20 11:02:36 MST 2011 

If "sacred" and "divine" mean the same, then what do(es) the word(s) 
_mean_?

What word do you use to mean that which the Gods are and we are not, then?


-- Kelley.

Greyhart wrote:
> To me, Sacred and Divine are the same. Something is Sacred, because it is
> Divine. Since everything we know, is of Divine origin, everything is Sacred.
>
> Based on my cosmology, where we are Divine, just separated from Deity and
> given individuality for a time, we feel the need to reconnect with the rest
> of Deity. It reminds us that we are not alone, and that there is more to us
> than we can see in these limited constructs we currently inhabit.
>
> Greyhart
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kelley Forbes [mailto:forbesk at astronomytower.net] 
> Sent: Friday, November 18, 2011 4:50 PM
> To: greyhart at castle-luna.com; community at crodreoilin.org
> Cc: Kelley Forbes
> Subject: Re: [Cro Dreoilin] Up for Discussion: Do the Gods need worship?
>
> What do _you_ mean by "sacred" and "divine"?
>
> When you say that _we_ need to worship, what does it do for us? Why do we
> need to worship; What do you mean by "worship"?
>
>
> -- Kelley.
>
> Greyhart wrote:
>   
>> I guess it depends on what you mean by Sacred. To me, they are very
>>     
> similar.
>   
>> It seems to me that every people and culture has had some form of worship.
>> We need to find something greater than ourselves to give honor and
>>     
> devotion
>   
>> to. We need to worship something.
>>
>> Greyhart
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Kelley Forbes [mailto:forbesk at astronomytower.net] 
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 11:31 AM
>> To: greyhart at castle-luna.com; community at crodreoilin.org
>> Cc: Kelley Forbes
>> Subject: Re: [Cro Dreoilin] Up for Discussion: Do the Gods need worship?
>>
>> If a God requires something, do they automatically need it?
>>
>>   
>>     
>>> I also believe that we are Divine, based on the fact that all of 
>>> creation was formed in a Divine act. Therefore everything within 
>>> creation must be Divine.
>>>     
>>>       
>> I think that if you replace "Divine" in that with "sacred", it won't be
>>     
> too
>   
>> far off from what CRs believe. There _is_ a difference between us and
>>     
> Gods,
>   
>> however, but it's not one of worth.
>>
>> In what way do you think we require worship?
>>
>>
>> -- Kelley.
>>
>> Greyhart wrote:
>>   
>>     
>>> Just got up (worked until 3am).
>>>
>>> When I read the question, my first thought was also, 'what defines 
>>> worship?' because worship is a word that means many things to many 
>>> people. I personally like the definition you found, Sebastian. Most 
>>> people in this country equate worship with giving power over to their 
>>> Deity, and submitting themselves to the whims of that Deity. If that 
>>> is the sort of relationship that a particular God requires, then they 
>>> probably do need worship in order to exist.
>>>
>>> This is the sort of relationship I have experienced with Christians. 
>>> The classic Trek episode, "Who Mourns For Adonis", which I believe is 
>>> the episode Charlotte referenced, (yes, I'm a Trek Geek) was written 
>>> about the crew meeting one of the classical Greek Gods, Apollo. It was 
>>> written from the Christian point of view, where Gods are all powerful, 
>>> and require humans to worship them in order to exist. This is a very 
>>> telling attitude that Christians seem to have.
>>>
>>> I see Deity differently than what I've heard the CR's describe. To me, 
>>> Deity is ever present, and what we look at and describe as individual 
>>> Gods, are simply facets of the whole. I also believe that we are 
>>> Divine, based on the fact that all of creation was formed in a Divine 
>>> act. Therefore everything within creation must be Divine. In simpler 
>>> terms, using the Charge of The Goddess, if the Goddess gave birth to 
>>> all that there is, even though I myself was not part of that original 
>>> birth, I am Divine by right of inheritance. I am the current 
>>> culmination of whatever particles, atoms, or molecules that the 
>>> Goddess gave birth to. Looking at it that way, when we worship the 
>>> Gods, we are opening the connection between our individual selves, and 
>>> that great source we call Deity.
>>>
>>> Do the Gods need or require worship? No, we do.
>>>
>>> Greyhart
>>>
>>> *From:* community-bounces at crodreoilin.org 
>>> [mailto:community-bounces at crodreoilin.org] *On Behalf Of *Sebastian
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 15, 2011 11:17 AM
>>> *To:* community at crodreoilin.org
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Cro Dreoilin] Up for Discussion: Do the Gods need
>>>       
> worship?
>   
>>> In order to answer this question I admit that I checked the dicitonary 
>>> for a specific definition of "worship" to understand the nuances of 
>>> that term. There is the obvious connotation of prostrating before the 
>>> gods which seems to be why many pagans cringe at the term. However, 
>>> there is one possible definition that seems to answer this question of 
>>> "what do you mean by worship?" in my own perspective. "formal or 
>>> ceremonious rendering of [...] honor and homage". Now, on to the 
>>> bigger question of need. If we aproach need as the idea that without 
>>> our worship of them that they would fall into disrepair or that they 
>>> are so proud that they require veneration for sustenance, I would say 
>>> no. My answer would come from the perspective of building a 
>>> relationship as you would with another person. In order to build a 
>>> healthy relationship with another human, there is an amount of give 
>>> and take, and this is where the "need" comes in to play. I wish to 
>>> build a strong, healthy relationship with the gods and ancestors and 
>>> my half of the give and take comes in the form of tanks, offerings, 
>>> veneration and plain "good ole fashion'd conversation". So, in short, 
>>> if you desire not to have a relationship with the gods, then no, they 
>>> do not need worship.
>>>
>>> ~Sebastian
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 9:48 AM, Norman <planner1968 at yahoo.com 
>>> <mailto:planner1968 at yahoo.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I am on the jump to run my day today but here are a few cent of my 
>>> thoughts on it. I do think that every deity needs attention. How does 
>>> that look and what is considered worship/ attention? If I ask my deity 
>>> for something and that's it, that in my opinion is not attention or 
>>> worship or however you call it. It's more about paying more attention 
>>> about the happenings,signs and communications in your life and how you 
>>> engage with them. You thank your deities, maybe even write a little 
>>> thank you note for a start. Just as you do with the people. Get into a 
>>> dialog. At a later point I will write more but now on my way into the 
>>> world conquering my kingdom:-)
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>
>>> On Nov 15, 2011, at 9:31 AM, Chris and Kelley 
>>> <chris.n.kelley at astronomytower.net
>>> <mailto:chris.n.kelley at astronomytower.net>> wrote:
>>>
>>>     
>>>       
>>>> In the interest of getting more discussion going on this list, we're
>>>>       
>>>>         
>>> going to start posting some topics for talk.
>>>     
>>>       
>>>> Our first topic: Do the Gods need worship?
>>>>
>>>> This is not just a yes or no answer; there are lot of questions in
>>>>       
>>>>         
>>> this one question. Consider: Which Gods are we talking about? What do 
>>> we mean by "need"? What do we mean by "worship"?
>>>     
>>>       
>>>> Have at it.
>>>>
>>>> -- Chris and Kelley.
>>>>
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>>>>       
>>>>         
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>>>   
>>>     
>>>       
>>   
>>     
>
>
>

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