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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I have to wonder why a wealthy Noble woman would become a nun. Generally, a second son who wasn’t going to inherit, would join the Church. That way the family had ties to the Church as a powerful ally, but that wasn’t until the middle ages. It may have happened earlier, but it was Tradition in the middle ages. It may be that as the Church grew stronger, and women lost power, they were sent to the Church if a suitable (read advantageous) marriage couldn’t be arranged for them. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Greyhart<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> community-bounces@crodreoilin.org [mailto:community-bounces@crodreoilin.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Amanda Ochs<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, March 26, 2012 4:30 PM<br><b>To:</b> community@crodreoilin.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Cro Dreoilin] Interesting article on St. Patrick's Day<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'>Hi Cro Dreoilin Community,<br><br>I actually know the guy who wrote the article/ tied all the quotes together. I haven't understood why neopagans insist St. Patrick's Day is solely about cultural/religious genocide...the holiday came about fairly late, almost as a celebration of Irish national rebellion concurrent with British imperial rule. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'>The "wearing of the green" is about Irish Nationalists rebelling against the "Orangemen" or the Scots-Irish who were the Protestant representatives of British Imperialism. This is because the ruling family was the House of Orange (William III and Mary of Orange). St. Patrick's day historically is really more about the modern nation-state of Ireland and its emancipation from British rule at the turn of the 19th century, than it has much to do with St. Patrick, other than he is the patron saint of Ireland for Catholics and the Irish Church. St. Patrick is used as a nationalist symbol of the oppressed Irish Catholics. <br><br>If you look at Patrick's biography, he was a member of a noble Romano-British family captured and put into slavery by Irish raiders. He escaped and went on to become a potroast (um...priest...thank you autocorrect). Whether Patricius actually engaged in forcible conversion of the pagan intelligentsia (Druids) or the later Irish Church found it convenient for their own ends to write that into St. Patrick's hagiography, I dont know. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'>I understand Bonewits' complaint about religious and cultural genocide, but I don't think that's how Christianity came to take hold in pre-Christian Ireland. One, Rome didn't arm its missionaries and advocate militaristic conversion in this era. Two, there aren't a lot of written records for this time period. What written records exist are those penned by Christian monastics, and are what would be termed not only hagiographic, but also polemic at times. Many people who read Celtic Christian hagiography forget that it obeys the rules of genre and is not bound to be a factual, historical account, but a form of institutional mythohistory to replace a culture's folklore.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'>I personally think that while there was tension in Ireland with a new religion, I don't see evidence of a violent conversion founded on genocide. I also don't know what happened to the Druids in the end. Chris and Kelley, I am sure you know much more than I do about Druidic history.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'>While Wikipedia still has its problems, there's a great article on St. Patrick. It seems there are a couple historical people mushed into the mythical figure of St. Patrick. Anybody who is interested in the early Christian history of Ireland should read it. And I think as Celtic Reconstructionists, we should know an accurate history of this period in Irish history as well. As I have grown past my early knowledge seekings of paganism and inserting my modern feminist agenda into history, I've found the more research I do, the more grounded and happy I am with my spiritual practice. I do believe there is a much more syncretic or at least multi-religious period in European history than many Christian historians from the late medieval period onward would like to have us believe. I don't believe Christianity was the religious monolith that it wanted us to believe it was, and many 19th century scholars created histories that reflect the 19th century values of nationalism and the nation-state. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'>I was also very curious about the wealthy and noble women who were converted into Christianity and became nuns. Who were those women in Irish society? This is mentioned in the Wikipedia article, not in the Wild Hunt blog.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'>Happy Spring! :)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'>Amanda<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='color:black'>------------------------------<br>On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 1:27 PM MDT Kelley Forbes wrote:<br><br>>It's a bit late, but this article contains some interesting discussion. Follow the links, too.<br>><br>><<a href="http://www.patheos.com/blogs/wildhunt/2012/03/saint-patrick-druids-snakes-and-popular-myths.html" target="_blank">http://www.patheos.com/blogs/wildhunt/2012/03/saint-patrick-druids-snakes-and-popular-myths.html</a>><br>><br>><br>>-- Kelley.<br>><br>><br>>_______________________________________________<br>>Community mailing list<br>><a href="mailto:Community@crodreoilin.org">Community@crodreoilin.org</a><br>><a href="http://crodreoilin.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community">http://crodreoilin.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></body></html>