<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><div><span>Who knew that the quiet one would speak up randomly out of nowhere on this discussion? It's very shocking to me, since I tend to be very reserved.</span></div><div><span></span> </div><div><span></span> </div><div>I don't know that I feel that I should worship the gods that call to me. Nor can I say that at times I want to. I don't know why I worship the gods that I do, nor do I feel like I really need a reason to. I do it because I do it. Am I compelled to do it? Maybe. Do I want to do it? Yes, generally speaking. Does it really matter if I do or not? Not in the grand scheme of things, I am but one person, and the gods have existed longer than I and will continue to exist after I am gone. Should I do it? Only in the sense that I wish to commune and fellowship with them in a way that we can all understand and
allows for direct communication. Will their world end if I don't? No. Will mine end if I don't? If it's the right god, maybe. I think really for me it more boils down to me asking myself "Do I deserve to worship these gods that have called to me and asked me to befriend them?" In my moments of despair, the blackest of times, the times when there is nothing, I am nothing, and nothing is all that will ever be, I remember that they are the gods who called to me, and that they find me deserving. I don't really know if this answers or avoids the question at hand, but it is the only response that has formed in my mind, so it is the response that is true.</div><div> </div><div>Brad<br></div> <div style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <font size="2" face="Arial"> <div style="margin: 5px 0px; padding: 0px; border: 1px solid
rgb(204, 204, 204); height: 0px; line-height: 0; font-size: 0px;" class="hr" contentEditable="false" readonly="true"></div> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> Sebastian <jsburns@gmail.com><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> community@crodreoilin.org <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Saturday, November 26, 2011 10:53 AM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Cro Dreoilin] "Shoulds"<br> </font> <br>
<div id="yiv260164136">I should follow the god(s) that call to me because I respect them and wish to build a lasting relationship with them. <br>Or in some cases, "I should follow the god(s) that call to me because otherwise they will be pissed."<br>
<br><div class="yiv260164136gmail_quote">On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 9:16 AM, Donna Miller <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:dmiller@faerealm.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:dmiller@faerealm.com">dmiller@faerealm.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid;" class="yiv260164136gmail_quote">
Okay, let me go at it. I do not follow Celtic spiritual traditions, being more drawn to ancient Persian spiritual traditions. I follow Celtic musical traditions which is tied into Celtic spirituality no matter what the Irish will tell you. I still know nothing about the Celtic reconstructionist traditions other than what Chris and Kelly taught us at the Jeffco CUUPS event.<br>
<br>
My own take on religion is that it exists, not for the god(s)'s sake but for the purpose of building society. The rules of the religion will mirror the religious community's strongest values, not the other way around. What "offends the god" is what disrupts society. Religion exists for man, not for god(dess)(s). Yet the worship of a god strengthens the value that said god represents.<br>
<br>
What are the shoulds that build Celtic Reconstructionist society? You are very open in belief but there should be guidelines set down that are forbidden. Usually they have more to do to the needs of the people in it than the tradition at hand.<br>
<br>
Enlighten me.<br>
<br>
DSM<div><div></div><div class="yiv260164136h5"><br>
<br>
On 11/26/2011 8:39 AM, Kelley Forbes wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid;" class="yiv260164136gmail_quote">
Alrighty, let's play the game:<br>
<br>
"You should follow the God(s) that you feel call to you," because -- ?<br>
<br>
<br>
-- Kelley & Chris.<br>
<br>
Katie Murphy wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid;" class="yiv260164136gmail_quote">
Yes, definitely, you should follow the God(s) that you feel call to you, rather than the God(s) that your parents/family/what have you expect you to follow/worship. Like, Brad's parents expect him to be Christian but it was never really true to him.<br>
<br>
However, I can understand the importance of stopping and checking ourselves for outside (say, Christian) moralistic views when it comes to approaching daily life and our Gods.<br>
<br>
On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 1:58 PM, Greyhart <<a href="mailto:greyhart@castle-luna.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:greyhart@castle-luna.com">greyhart@castle-luna.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:greyhart@castle-luna.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:greyhart@castle-luna.com">greyhart@castle-luna.<u></u>com</a>>> wrote:<br>
<br>
I think what both Sue and Katie are trying to get across, is that<br>
it is<br>
better to honor, worship, follow, whatever, the Gods who call you,<br>
rather<br>
than the God(s) your family expect(s) you to. I may be wrong on<br>
that, but<br>
that's what I'm getting from their posts.<br>
<br>
Greyhart<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href="mailto:community-bounces@crodreoilin.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:community-bounces@crodreoilin.org">community-bounces@crodreoilin.<u></u>org</a><br>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:community-bounces@crodreoilin.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:community-bounces@crodreoilin.org">community-bounces@<u></u>crodreoilin.org</a>><br>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:community-bounces@crodreoilin.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:community-bounces@crodreoilin.org">community-bounces@<u></u>crodreoilin.org</a><br>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:community-bounces@crodreoilin.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:community-bounces@crodreoilin.org">community-bounces@<u></u>crodreoilin.org</a>>] On Behalf Of Kelley Forbes<br>
Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 12:01 PM<br>
To: <a href="mailto:community@crodreoilin.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:community@crodreoilin.org">community@crodreoilin.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:community@crodreoilin.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:community@crodreoilin.org">community@crodreoilin.<u></u>org</a>><br>
Cc: Kelley Forbes<br>
Subject: Re: [Cro Dreoilin] "Shoulds"<br>
<br>
I think wanting to do something is, truly, very important; it is,<br>
however,<br>
only peripherally related to what I was saying.<br>
<br>
There are different parts that "wanting" can play when we are<br>
talking about<br>
living up to our values. We can want something physically or<br>
emotionally or<br>
mentally or spiritually/philosophically. Sometimes those<br>
different wants<br>
can come into conflict. We can, for instance, choose to do<br>
something we<br>
would otherwise not want to do, because we also want to live up a<br>
certain<br>
set of values.<br>
<br>
The crux of it is that, even in this situation, we need to be able<br>
to say<br>
what value or values we are living up to. When we are<br>
specifically dealing<br>
with aesthetic wants and choices, if we find ourselves<br>
substituting the<br>
"because it will ..." phrase with " ... because I want to," too<br>
often, it<br>
can be an indication that we are masking moralistic behavior. In<br>
this case,<br>
"wanting" can mean the internalization of societal norms to the<br>
point that<br>
we can't separate our own choice from what we have been brought up to<br>
believe is true.<br>
<br>
<br>
-- Kelley.<br>
<br>
<br>
Katie Murphy wrote:<br>
> I like what Sue said about this. I think that doing something out of<br>
> obligation isn't as meaningful as doing something because you<br>
WANT to.<br>
><br>
> --Katie<br>
><br>
> On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 3:21 PM, sue blackmore<br>
> <<a href="mailto:sblackmore1966@gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:sblackmore1966@gmail.com">sblackmore1966@gmail.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:sblackmore1966@gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:sblackmore1966@gmail.com">sblackmore1966@gmail.<u></u>com</a>><br>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:sblackmore1966@gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:sblackmore1966@gmail.com">sblackmore1966@gmail.<u></u>com</a><br>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:sblackmore1966@gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:sblackmore1966@gmail.com">sblackmore1966@gmail.<u></u>com</a>>>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> It has been said that the best reason to do anything is<br>
because we<br>
> want to. So we say please, step out of our comfort zone and<br>
> venerate our gods not because we should or its polite or the<br>
gods<br>
> need it but because we want to.<br>
><br>
> On Nov 20, 2011 3:08 PM, "Charlotte Blackwood"<br>
> <<a href="mailto:charlotte.blackwood@gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:charlotte.blackwood@gmail.com">charlotte.blackwood@gmail.com</a><br>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:charlotte.blackwood@gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:charlotte.blackwood@gmail.com">charlotte.blackwood@<u></u>gmail.com</a>><br>
> <mailto:<a href="mailto:charlotte.blackwood@gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:charlotte.blackwood@gmail.com">charlotte.blackwood@<u></u>gmail.com</a><br>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:charlotte.blackwood@gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:charlotte.blackwood@gmail.com">charlotte.blackwood@<u></u>gmail.com</a>>>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> You are so cool :) Thanks for that email :)<br>
><br>
> On 11/20/11, Kelley Forbes <<a href="mailto:forbesk@astronomytower.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:forbesk@astronomytower.net">forbesk@astronomytower.net</a><br>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:forbesk@astronomytower.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:forbesk@astronomytower.net">forbesk@<u></u>astronomytower.net</a>><br>
> <mailto:<a href="mailto:forbesk@astronomytower.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:forbesk@astronomytower.net">forbesk@<u></u>astronomytower.net</a><br>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:forbesk@astronomytower.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:forbesk@astronomytower.net">forbesk@<u></u>astronomytower.net</a>>>> wrote:<br>
> > One interesting thing this topic of "needs" has me<br>
thinking<br>
> about is the<br>
> > place that "shoulds" have in our religion.<br>
> ><br>
> > In a values-based aesthetic, there are no independent<br>
> "should" actions<br>
> > or rules; there are no "thou shalts" or "thou shalt nots".<br>
> Every time<br>
> > you think of yourself as "having to" or "must" or "should<br>
> do", then you<br>
> > should be able to complete the phrase "because it will<br>
____".<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > "I should open the door, because it is hospitable to<br>
do so."<br>
> ><br>
> > "I should say 'please', because I am acknowledging the<br>
right<br>
> of the<br>
> > person to say no, and that builds independence and<br>
community."<br>
> ><br>
> > "I should step out of my comfort zone, because it is<br>
> courageous."<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > If you catch yourself having a bunch of "should" thoughts<br>
> and not being<br>
> > able to complete that sentence, then you need to ask<br>
> yourself what<br>
> > ethics you are caring around with you that are someone<br>
> else's rules,<br>
> > most likely picked up from our decidedly moral-based<br>
culture.<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > -- Kelley.<br>
> ><br>
> > ______________________________<u></u>_________________<br>
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