Ok, it would have taken too long to read everything here before i joined in. SO i will just jump in.<div>I feel that whoever said " we get what we expect....", is right. Now saying that...my experiences have changed my position over the years and i NOW have found HOME with the Norse Gods. </div>
<div>i have not found that the NOrse Gods need 'worship', but i would say that 'tribute' , 'honor' are better words. It's been my experience with them that they prefer things more simply, if for no other reason than to get on with life (i think).</div>
<div>But that they seem to be more flexible than most other pantheons...in that they are ok with what makes things easier for you to connect.</div><div><br></div><div>Myself, i prefer some ritual aspect, i am comfortable with that-it's what i know. They have urged me however to expand out of my comfort zone. LOL.</div>
<div>Hense, how i know the simpler aspect. lol.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Tyrscrow <br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 5:50 PM, Kelley Forbes <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:forbesk@astronomytower.net">forbesk@astronomytower.net</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">What do _you_ mean by "sacred" and "divine"?<br>
<br>
When you say that _we_ need to worship, what does it do for us? Why do we need to worship; What do you mean by "worship"?<br>
<br>
<br>
-- Kelley.<br>
<br>
Greyhart wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
I guess it depends on what you mean by Sacred. To me, they are very similar.<br>
<br>
It seems to me that every people and culture has had some form of worship.<br>
We need to find something greater than ourselves to give honor and devotion<br>
to. We need to worship something.<br>
<br>
Greyhart<div><div></div><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Kelley Forbes [mailto:<a href="mailto:forbesk@astronomytower.net" target="_blank">forbesk@<u></u>astronomytower.net</a>] Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 11:31 AM<br>
To: <a href="mailto:greyhart@castle-luna.com" target="_blank">greyhart@castle-luna.com</a>; <a href="mailto:community@crodreoilin.org" target="_blank">community@crodreoilin.org</a><br>
Cc: Kelley Forbes<br>
Subject: Re: [Cro Dreoilin] Up for Discussion: Do the Gods need worship?<br>
<br>
If a God requires something, do they automatically need it?<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
I also believe that we are Divine, based on the fact that all of creation was formed in a Divine act. Therefore everything within creation must be Divine.<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
I think that if you replace "Divine" in that with "sacred", it won't be too<br>
far off from what CRs believe. There _is_ a difference between us and Gods,<br>
however, but it's not one of worth.<br>
<br>
In what way do you think we require worship?<br>
<br>
<br>
-- Kelley.<br>
<br>
Greyhart wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Just got up (worked until 3am).<br>
<br>
When I read the question, my first thought was also, 'what defines worship?' because worship is a word that means many things to many people. I personally like the definition you found, Sebastian. Most people in this country equate worship with giving power over to their Deity, and submitting themselves to the whims of that Deity. If that is the sort of relationship that a particular God requires, then they probably do need worship in order to exist.<br>
<br>
This is the sort of relationship I have experienced with Christians. The classic Trek episode, "Who Mourns For Adonis", which I believe is the episode Charlotte referenced, (yes, I'm a Trek Geek) was written about the crew meeting one of the classical Greek Gods, Apollo. It was written from the Christian point of view, where Gods are all powerful, and require humans to worship them in order to exist. This is a very telling attitude that Christians seem to have.<br>
<br>
I see Deity differently than what I've heard the CR's describe. To me, Deity is ever present, and what we look at and describe as individual Gods, are simply facets of the whole. I also believe that we are Divine, based on the fact that all of creation was formed in a Divine act. Therefore everything within creation must be Divine. In simpler terms, using the Charge of The Goddess, if the Goddess gave birth to all that there is, even though I myself was not part of that original birth, I am Divine by right of inheritance. I am the current culmination of whatever particles, atoms, or molecules that the Goddess gave birth to. Looking at it that way, when we worship the Gods, we are opening the connection between our individual selves, and that great source we call Deity.<br>
<br>
Do the Gods need or require worship? No, we do.<br>
<br>
Greyhart<br>
<br>
*From:* <a href="mailto:community-bounces@crodreoilin.org" target="_blank">community-bounces@crodreoilin.<u></u>org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:community-bounces@crodreoilin.org" target="_blank">community-bounces@<u></u>crodreoilin.org</a>] *On Behalf Of *Sebastian<br>
*Sent:* Tuesday, November 15, 2011 11:17 AM<br>
*To:* <a href="mailto:community@crodreoilin.org" target="_blank">community@crodreoilin.org</a><br>
*Subject:* Re: [Cro Dreoilin] Up for Discussion: Do the Gods need worship?<br>
<br>
In order to answer this question I admit that I checked the dicitonary for a specific definition of "worship" to understand the nuances of that term. There is the obvious connotation of prostrating before the gods which seems to be why many pagans cringe at the term. However, there is one possible definition that seems to answer this question of "what do you mean by worship?" in my own perspective. "formal or ceremonious rendering of [...] honor and homage". Now, on to the bigger question of need. If we aproach need as the idea that without our worship of them that they would fall into disrepair or that they are so proud that they require veneration for sustenance, I would say no. My answer would come from the perspective of building a relationship as you would with another person. In order to build a healthy relationship with another human, there is an amount of give and take, and this is where the "need" comes in to play. I wish to build a strong, healthy relationship with the gods and ancestors and my half of the give and take comes in the form of tanks, offerings, veneration and plain "good ole fashion'd conversation". So, in short, if you desire not to have a relationship with the gods, then no, they do not need worship.<br>
<br>
~Sebastian<br>
<br>
On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 9:48 AM, Norman <<a href="mailto:planner1968@yahoo.com" target="_blank">planner1968@yahoo.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:planner1968@yahoo.com" target="_blank">planner1968@yahoo.com</a>><u></u>> wrote:<br>
<br>
I am on the jump to run my day today but here are a few cent of my thoughts on it. I do think that every deity needs attention. How does that look and what is considered worship/ attention? If I ask my deity for something and that's it, that in my opinion is not attention or worship or however you call it. It's more about paying more attention about the happenings,signs and communications in your life and how you engage with them. You thank your deities, maybe even write a little thank you note for a start. Just as you do with the people. Get into a dialog. At a later point I will write more but now on my way into the world conquering my kingdom:-)<br>
<br>
Sent from my iPhone<br>
<br>
<br>
On Nov 15, 2011, at 9:31 AM, Chris and Kelley <<a href="mailto:chris.n.kelley@astronomytower.net" target="_blank">chris.n.kelley@<u></u>astronomytower.net</a><br>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:chris.n.kelley@astronomytower.net" target="_blank">chris.n.kelley@<u></u>astronomytower.net</a>>> wrote:<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
In the interest of getting more discussion going on this list, we're<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
going to start posting some topics for talk.<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Our first topic: Do the Gods need worship?<br>
<br>
This is not just a yes or no answer; there are lot of questions in<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
this one question. Consider: Which Gods are we talking about? What do we mean by "need"? What do we mean by "worship"?<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Have at it.<br>
<br>
-- Chris and Kelley.<br>
<br>
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<br>
<br>
<br>
</div></div></blockquote><div><div></div><div class="h5">
<br>
<br>
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div><font face="'comic sans ms', sans-serif" size="4">Tyrscrow</font></div><br>
</div>