[Cro Dreoilin] Interesting article on St. Patrick's Day

[Amanda Ochs]

Greyhart,

I have no idea who those wealthy noble women would be either! It was common during the middle ages for a family with multiple daughters to send some to the nunnery if they couldn't afford dowries for all of them. 

Were these women priestesses or Druids? 

Amanda


------------------------------
On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 1:12 AM MDT Greyhart wrote:

>I have to wonder why a wealthy Noble woman would become a nun. Generally, a
>second son who wasn't going to inherit, would join the Church. That way the
>family had ties to the Church as a powerful ally, but that wasn't until the
>middle ages. It may have happened earlier, but it was Tradition in the
>middle ages. It may be that as the Church grew stronger, and women lost
>power, they were sent to the Church if a suitable (read advantageous)
>marriage couldn't be arranged for them. 
>
> 
>
>Greyhart
>
> 
>
>From: community-bounces at crodreoilin.org
>[mailto:community-bounces at crodreoilin.org] On Behalf Of Amanda Ochs
>Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 4:30 PM
>To: community at crodreoilin.org
>Subject: Re: [Cro Dreoilin] Interesting article on St. Patrick's Day
>
> 
>
>Hi Cro Dreoilin Community,
>
>I actually know the guy who wrote the article/ tied all the quotes together.
>I haven't understood why neopagans insist St. Patrick's Day is solely about
>cultural/religious genocide...the holiday came about fairly late, almost as
>a celebration of Irish national rebellion concurrent with British imperial
>rule.   
>
> 
>
>The "wearing of the green" is about Irish Nationalists rebelling against the
>"Orangemen" or the Scots-Irish who were the Protestant representatives of
>British Imperialism.  This is because the ruling family was the House of
>Orange (William III and Mary of Orange).  St. Patrick's day historically is
>really more about the modern nation-state of Ireland and its emancipation
>from British rule at the turn of the 19th century, than it has much to do
>with St. Patrick, other than he is the patron saint of Ireland for Catholics
>and the Irish Church.  St. Patrick is used as a nationalist  symbol of the
>oppressed Irish Catholics. 
>
>If you look at Patrick's biography, he was a member of a noble
>Romano-British family captured and put into slavery by Irish raiders. He
>escaped and went on to become a potroast (um...priest...thank you
>autocorrect).  Whether Patricius actually engaged in forcible conversion of
>the pagan intelligentsia (Druids) or the later Irish Church found it
>convenient for their own ends to write that into St. Patrick's hagiography,
>I dont know.  
>
> 
>
>I understand Bonewits' complaint about religious and cultural genocide, but
>I don't think that's how Christianity came to take hold in pre-Christian
>Ireland.  One, Rome didn't arm its missionaries and advocate militaristic
>conversion in this era.  Two, there aren't a lot of written records for this
>time period.  What written records exist are those penned by Christian
>monastics, and are what would be termed not only hagiographic, but also
>polemic at times.  Many people who read Celtic Christian hagiography forget
>that it obeys the rules of genre and is not bound to be a factual,
>historical account, but a form of institutional mythohistory to replace a
>culture's folklore.
>
>I personally think that while there was tension in Ireland with a new
>religion, I don't see evidence of a violent conversion founded on genocide.
>I also don't know what happened to the Druids in the end.  Chris and Kelley,
>I am sure you know much more than I do about Druidic history.
>
> 
>
>While Wikipedia still has its problems, there's a great article on St.
>Patrick.  It seems there are a couple historical people mushed into the
>mythical figure of St. Patrick.  Anybody who is interested in the early
>Christian history of Ireland should read it.  And I think as Celtic
>Reconstructionists, we should know an accurate history of this period in
>Irish history as well.  As I have grown past my early knowledge seekings of
>paganism and inserting my modern feminist agenda into history, I've found
>the more research I do, the more grounded and happy I am with my spiritual
>practice.  I do believe there is a much more syncretic or at least
>multi-religious period in European history than many Christian historians
>from the late medieval period onward would like to have us believe.  I don't
>believe Christianity was the religious monolith that it wanted us to believe
>it was, and many 19th century scholars created histories that reflect the
>19th century values of nationalism and the nation-state. 
>
> 
>
>I was also very curious about the wealthy and noble women who were converted
>into Christianity and became nuns.  Who were those women in Irish society?
>This is mentioned in the Wikipedia article, not in the Wild Hunt blog.
>
> 
>
>Happy Spring! :)
>
>Amanda
>
> 
>
>------------------------------
>On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 1:27 PM MDT Kelley Forbes wrote:
>
>>It's a bit late, but this article contains some interesting discussion.
>Follow the links, too.
>>
>><http://www.patheos.com/blogs/wildhunt/2012/03/saint-patrick-druids-snakes-
>and-popular-myths.html>
>>
>>
>>-- Kelley.
>>
>>
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