[Cro Dreoilin] Up for Discussion: Do the Gods need worship?

[Corc Hamr]

I said that ancestors-become-Gods need power lent to them in the form of
worship. Gods begotten or made as Gods do not, but they still get
"something real" out of worship. What this something is, however, is hard
to define, which is why I declined to. I suppose in simplest terms, it's a
form of energy, something tangible on the level of spirit which is not so
in the physical world. Perhaps similar to what our offerings become when
broken, poured, burned, or whatever.

In any case, the way I see it, the ancestors are not Gods unless deified,
either by another God (in which case, the power is already given, and my
previous assertion is moot), or by the tribes, clans, groups, whichever,
who venerate the person in question. This power is unlike the power of the
Gods, although whether the Gods' power is an imbuing or itself a steady
stream is not really in my power to answer. So the idea here is that humans
provide a steady stream of energy to the ancestor in question, which allows
the ancestor access to deific power in some way. Whether this is a
temporary prelude to permanent deity or not, well, I'm uncertain. However,
part of that worship is almost CERTAINLY the addition of that new God in
the tribe's lore, dealing with other deities, providing aid, and so forth.
Sometimes, it is a reworking of the God's ancestry to include deific
parents. The new deity is honored highly, as a God, and given due
reverence. As more people accept the deity's new status, deification
occurs. I imagine that, in days of old, this would include a druid, or
priest, or king making a formal declaration after some time had past.

That's how I see things working, anyway.

-G

On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 11:30 AM, Kelley Forbes
<forbesk at astronomytower.net>wrote:

> So, when you say that ancestors-become-Gods need some worship in order to
> "gift them with something real", how does that work, in your opinion?
>
>
> -- Kelley.
>
>
> Corc Hamr wrote:
>
>> It seems to me that in the case of most Gods, for example An Daghda, the
>> Morrighan, and similar deities, worship is something that we give because
>> it promotes the hospitality relationship between us and them. On the other
>> hand, Gods that are elevated from Ancestor status, such as (both of these
>> are arguable, I know) Cu Chulainn or (going into the Greek for a moment)
>> Arachne, must have a certain amount of power lent to them in the form of
>> worship or at least veneration of some type in order to maintain that
>> status. Regardless of that worship, however (and now I'm going into my own
>> Animist viewpoint), the spirits of Cu Chulainn and Arachne remain, as do
>> the spirits of the land and spirits of various other entities, including
>> the Gods; I doubt that our Pagan practices would be as powerful to us as
>> they are, otherwise. Do they need worship, then? Probably not, but there is
>> something in worship and/or offering which gifts them with something real,
>> which is to say it benefits them in some way.
>> My two bits. -G
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 9:31 AM, Chris and Kelley <chris.n.kelley@**
>> astronomytower.net <chris.n.kelley at astronomytower.net> <mailto:
>> chris.n.kelley@**astronomytower.net <chris.n.kelley at astronomytower.net>>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>    In the interest of getting more discussion going on this list,
>>    we're going to start posting some topics for talk.
>>
>>    Our first topic: Do the Gods need worship?
>>
>>    This is not just a yes or no answer; there are lot of questions in
>>    this one question. Consider:  Which Gods are we talking about?
>>    What do we mean by "need"? What do we mean by "worship"?
>>
>>    Have at it.
>>
>>    -- Chris and Kelley.
>>
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